Procedural Generation

[tulamide]

Back when I developed games and game-like apps, the one thing I utilized the most was procedual generation.

Normally, you would create and set up everything from the least significant decoration to the most important player behaviour. But procedural generation is a way to let the machine do all the work for you. The difference to random generation is that your machine sticks to parameters and definitions that you define.

To explain procedural generation, I once created an application that converted the boring coding tuff into a metaphor that was telling it all. The app was able to create trees. It started with a seed. You entered a number, and from that numbered seed in front of your eyes a tree began to grow. Another seed would create another tree, and all looked different. Yet, when entering a seed you already used, you would get that same tree again.

I also used it for a (2D) game that created an endless (today we say "open") world. Going back to where you already were would show you the exact landscape you remembered. Yet, there was no saving of huge data packages involved, or anything. It was all procedurally generated, meaning in realtime, while you play.

I wonder if you would be interested in seeing how procedural generation could be introduced in a plugin, and how it could affect your plugin, etc.?

If there is enough interest, I plan to create a series of posts, probably starting around christmas. But it's not a must! It is a lot of work doing the Ruby programming, so I don't mind if the interest is rather low! The reactions to this post help me deciding wether to do it or not.

[Spogg]

OMG! That’s really weird.

I’ve been thinking about such things lately. In my case not so much a seed that always end up with the same output, but more like a generative system like SSEYO Koan. However, your idea totally fascinates me and I would LOVE to see it developed and in action, in whatever form you come up with.

Will the idea be to create a sound to play, like a synthesiser, or to create musical passages and sequences?

If you need any help with this at any time, you know where I am!

Cheers

Spogg

[tulamide]

Interesting. I had to look up SSEYO Koan. But that was interesting, because it revealed that it actually was worked on the whole time. Several acquisitions took place over the time, and Koan evolved into Noatikl and -just 2 years ago- into Wotja. It still exists, and there is even a free version of Wotja for PCs. I downloaded it and it works fine.

Here's the downlad page on Microsoft, in case you want to try it yourself: https://www.microsoft.com/de-de/p/wotja-generative-music/9nf13j99qtgj?cid=imsite&rtc=1&activetab=pivot:overviewtab

It certainly is generative, but not so much procedural, as you set up patches, create links, a lot like in Flowstone. The difference is basically that it has a midi sequencer that automatically triggers the sounds you build/add to your "schematic". A procedural generative music app would instead just have, say, two sliders, one to set the mood and one to set the amount of instruments, and the complex algorithms in the background would do all the rest.

Wotja is also way more complex than I would be willing to do.

Nevertheless it was an interesting finding!

[Spogg]

Yes, I think the key is that procedural and generative don’t mean the same thing. When I read your first post I thought they were different names for the same thing, but you’ve made the difference clear now.
In which case I would say that the basis of your procedural approach would be well worth pursuing, if only as proof of principle.

Go for it (please)!

Cheers

Spogg

[tulamide]

Yes, I think the key is that procedural and generative don’t mean the same thing. When I read your first post I thought they were different names for the same thing, but you’ve made the difference clear now.
In which case I would say that the basis of your procedural approach would be well worth pursuing, if only as proof of principle.

Go for it (please)!

Cheers

Spogg

I share your excitement, however, it doesn't seem like there's much interest.

[martinvicanek]

How could this be used in a musical or audio context: algorithmic composition? Sound creation?

[tulamide]

How could this be used in a musical or audio context: algorithmic composition? Sound creation?

Both, but to keep it simple, I'd focus on sound creation. This is because I lack the knowledge needed to create a DSP code based multichannel pattern arpeggiator. I could only do the visuals and even that would take months to create.

[martinvicanek]

Add me to the list!

[tulamide]

Add me to the list!

Awesome!

It starts getting worth the effort

[RJHollins]

Anytime you Guys post 'Educational' material ... I try to read and follow, regardless if it is something that I might need at this moment.

Frankly ... it is one of the main reasons I visit this forum. There is no one in my immediate that has any ideas about computers ... let alone, programming concepts and examples.

I try to check out most ever example posted. Lately ... a few of the Synths, not because I would have need ... but I listen thru the Presets .... and pursue through the schematic, gleaning what I can.

Bottom line ... if you post ... I read