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Sample Player midi problem

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Sample Player midi problem

Postby StereoSpace » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:17 am

Hello friends!
For a long time I tried to build a sample player based on sfz samples and adding an analog oscillator to generate sub or noise.
It took a long time, and I returned to the project. On the forum I found a circuit for the midi module in which the glissando worked fine with a bunch of additional settings.
The last midi module caused my FL Studio to freeze.

I added one player, connected it, and everything works well (for the stage I am at),
But when you try to add one or two other SFZ players, distortions occur in the sound or sound does not come from them at all, and the first one plays normally. When I connect them to a single poly to mono, then the sound seems to come from all sources, but it is still not the same as when the player is connected alone.

Please, help)))
The only way out, I see, is to output the player to two or three independent synthesizers in one common window. But then, it seems to me that it will be inconvenient for the user to adjust the polyphony, glide, etc. for each generator.
Plus, I don’t understand how to make an independent octave switch for them, so that when you press the C4 octave key, the midi signal can be transposed, for example, to the C5 note for one of the SFZ players.
The circuit is attached to the cloud, as samples are used there. I added a few of my own samples so you can listen to everything.

I will be glad for any of your help guys!

Link to zip (project and samples) - https://yadi.sk/d/TCQ5q2hRv5ElMw

https://i.ibb.co/RBSdz9k/shot.jpg
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Re: Sample Player midi problem

Postby kortezzzz » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:01 am

If you tried any of the flowstone 3 versions for the SFZ module, I guess you'll never get it working properly since it was buggy as hell and never fixed during the years. With the new flowstone alfa thing are a bit smoother, but flowstone still has a steep limitation for anything that related to working with samples because it loads everything internally and doesn't uses "disk reading". That's why sfz sample's (sizes x amount) becomes very critical factor and you always have to watch out not pass the the allowed (size x amount), or your project gonna choke instantly and probably crash.

Anyway, First thing to do is to move to latest alfa version. Try it with the alfa first and report on any additional bug or issue at the flowstone slack platform.
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Re: Sample Player midi problem

Postby StereoSpace » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:35 am

You are right, the SFZ module is very buggy. I switched to alpha (not the most recent) and here the problem is rather my wrong connection. But I still do not have enough knowledge to fix it.
The latest project Quilcom Chaos Mod has a good midi module on board, but how to screw it to the SFZ ... :oops:
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Re: Sample Player midi problem

Postby trogluddite » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:48 am

StereoSpace wrote:When I connect them to a single poly to mono

This is very likely to cause problems. Each voice manager ("MIDI to Poly", "Voices to Poly", etc.) is intended to have total control over a network of poly primitives and links. When poly links originating from different voice managers are summed, they will fight each other for control, with very unpredictable results. As you have found, the only sure solution is to sum the outputs after converting each poly network into mono - i.e. to treat each sampler as a separate instrument.

Whether your samplers could potentially share a single voice manager in some way, I don't know, as I'm not familiar with the SFZ component.

(NB: I was unable to look at your schematic, as my FlowStone PC is under repair - so apologies if I have misinderstood the problem).
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Re: Sample Player midi problem

Postby newdsp » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:39 pm

Try this sampler comrade. This one works better than SFZ and you can reverse and set loop points instantly. You can't do that with SFZ. Right now is wired in mono mode but it has a automatic jumping pan almost like the NNXT from Reason 10. Works with FlowStone v3.0.9b2-3319-gd51130b.
Attachments
FM-X v0.010.fsm
This one is a simple 3 operator FM synth for v3.0.9b2-3319-gd51130b but it's not finished yet.
(124.83 KiB) Downloaded 77 times
SamplerLooper 004 .fsm
This one has random jumping pan plus LFO pan. Works with FlowStone v3.0.9b2-3319-gd51130b.
(808.65 KiB) Downloaded 73 times
SamplerLooper 003 .fsm
(600.72 KiB) Downloaded 74 times
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Re: Sample Player midi problem

Postby kortezzzz » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:05 pm

SFZ advantages are different compared to the "one sample" samplers. First, It sounds more realistic since it usually uses several samples across the full 128 keys and second, it has dedicate loop points which create a perfect sustain when note is pressed and hold in legato mode. That's why the SFZ and the soundfont formats are still so popular. Althogh soundfond format is quite oldie, I still wish to see it coming in to FS and powered by a dedicated primitive. It's so simple and fast to set and there are also tons of ready to go downloadable soundfont libraries across the net. But right now we have only the SFZ which can work reasonably as long as it well tweaked and I'm not sure that all those midi manipulations which work with synth oscillators would work with SFZ to. However, I've never even bothered trying.
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Re: Sample Player midi problem

Postby StereoSpace » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:44 pm

trogluddite wrote:
StereoSpace wrote:When I connect them to a single poly to mono

...When poly links originating from different voice managers are summed, they will fight each other for control, with very unpredictable results...


Thanks for the clarification, you are correct, it sounds like they are fighting for the flow.
I made them separate and so far so good)
With the transition from poly to mono, is there a big difference in cpu load if filters and some effects are connected to mono instead of poly?
It's just that in the sum of mono it will now be possible to make a general filter, etc., and in the poly connection I will have to duplicate everything (which will naturally cause an increase in the load on the CPU).


newdsp wrote:Try this sampler comrade. This one works better than SFZ and you can reverse and set loop points instantly. You can't do that with SFZ. Right now is wired in mono mode but it has a automatic jumping pan almost like the NNXT from Reason 10. Works with FlowStone v3.0.9b2-3319-gd51130b.


Thanks for the great circuit, I thought to add something like an additional generator for single or non-tonal sounds (clicks, transients) But SFZ is a priority for my project, since I myself sample the instruments and can choose the number of velocities of layers and zones, loop points are created automatically and etc.

kortezzzz wrote: I still wish to see it coming in to FS and powered by a dedicated primitive. It's so simple and fast to set and there are also tons of ready to go downloadable soundfont libraries across the net. But right now we have only the SFZ which can work reasonably as long as it well tweaked and I'm not sure that all those midi manipulations which work with synth oscillators would work with SFZ to. However, I've never even bothered trying.


Oh yes, I am also expecting something similar. Support for multi-sample format with instant reading from disk would be helpful. I partly switched to the maize sampler , where the minimum CPU load even for large projects with 20-30 patches playing simultaneously and having 5 velocity zones each, but the lack of effects and detailed design of the interface forces me to develop in flow stone.
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Re: Sample Player midi problem

Postby kortezzzz » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:39 pm

StereoSpace wrote:I partly switched to the maize sampler , where the minimum CPU load even for large projects with 20-30 patches playing simultaneously and having 5 velocity zones each, but the lack of effects and detailed design of the interface forces me to develop in flow stone.


Yep, same here. But I believe FS is going to break that boundaries. Disk reading is probably the most requested feature so far and sample syncing to BPM straight from a primitive without additional mess should be another game changer that will probably kill any competition and send maize and other software to the heaven of the developing platforms. We'll have to be patient I guess. Myco does a wonderful job and the forum requests yet have a partial effect on FS's developing roadmap.
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Re: Sample Player midi problem

Postby newdsp » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:42 am

Here is an SFZ player that works in FL SynthMaker but it won't open in 309b2. Try to open it in 306 or maybe 300.
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SMG Twintable.osm
(1.85 MiB) Downloaded 71 times
SMG SFZ Player.osm
(616.46 KiB) Downloaded 82 times
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Re: Sample Player midi problem

Postby StereoSpace » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:16 pm

Thank you very much for the help!
Somewhere on the forum I met a project where it was possible to transpose an octave down or up using a specific midi module. before entering the "m to v". Have you come across such a project or maybe there is a hint how I can find it myself?
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