Crazy Ideas

[BobF]

Hello World,
Well I, crazy Bob have another wild idea. Trying to spice things up a little here, why not have requests for things you would like to see made. Sort of a challenge for those gifted and talented ones here. Now maybe your request will never be heard and then again it just may. The thing is please just post something and see what happens. Also please do not get discouraged, if your first request does not come forth, try another. Maybe it was just beyond are talents for that particular request. LASTLY, please NO unnatural requests, you know what I mean, keep them moderately sane.

I will start it off with those talented in filter design. Is it possible to create a "TALK BOX" effect. Like what Peter Framton uses and etc.. MDA-VST.com makes a pretty good one and also Antares ARTICULATOR is very nice. Is it even a filter, or maybe a specialized vocoder, I do not know, but I am sure someone here does.

Well that's about it. Really hope you all like this idea!
Have fun, BobF.....

[Spogg]

I asked Martin to make me a filter that gave 6 outputs that were next week's lottery winning numbers but he just laughed at me

Seriously though, this is a good idea I think. I would suggest that any solutions be referenced here but maybe put in a new Topic to keep different offered solutions together. I do like the idea of being challenged to do stuff that I think I might be capable of.

Let's hope this one flies!

Cheers

Spogg

[martinvicanek]

Hey that's something I have been wanting to do anyway, just never got 'round to it. I think LPC would make a pretty cool talk box. Hmmm...

[Spogg]

I will start it off with those talented in filter design. Is it possible to create a "TALK BOX" effect. Like what Peter Framton uses and etc.. MDA-VST.com makes a pretty good one and also Antares ARTICULATOR is very nice. Is it even a filter, or maybe a specialized vocoder, I do not know, but I am sure someone here does.

I don't know this effect Bob. Any chance you could link to a track or video so I can hear the thing in action?

Cheers

Spogg

[Youlean]

If you want to make talkbox first you must start with vowel filters. Here is schematics how to set them up. (Filters are bandpass).

Code: Select all

Soprano 'a'      f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   800 1150 2900 3900 4950
Amp (dB)         0    -6  -32  -20  -50
bw (Hz)          80   90  120  130  140

Soprano 'e'      f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   350 2000 2800 3600 4950
Amp (dB)         0   -20  -15  -40  -56
bw (Hz)          60  100  120  150  200

Soprano 'i'      f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   270 2140 2950 3900 4950
Amp (dB)         0   -12  -26  -26  -44
bw (Hz)          60   90  100  120  120

Soprano 'o'      f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   450  800 2830 3800 4950
Amp (dB)         0   -11  -22  -22  -50
bw (Hz)          70   80  100  130  135

Soprano 'u'      f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   325  700 2700 3800 4950
Amp (dB)         0   -16  -35  -40  -60
bw (Hz)          50   60  170  180  200

Alto 'a'         f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   800 1150 2800 3500 4950
Amp (dB)         0    -4  -20  -36  -60
bw (Hz)          80   90  120  130  140

Alto 'e'         f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   400 1600 2700 3300 4950
Amp (dB)         0   -24  -30  -35  -60
bw (Hz)          60   80  120  150  200

Alto 'i'         f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   350 1700 2700 3700 4950
Amp (dB)         0   -20  -30  -36  -60
bw (Hz)          50  100  120  150  200

Alto 'o'         f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   450  800 2830 3500 4950
Amp (dB)         0    -9  -16  -28  -55
bw (Hz)          70   80  100  130  135

Alto 'u'         f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   325  700 2530 3500 4950
Amp (dB)         0   -12  -30  -40  -64
bw (Hz)          50   60  170  180  200

CounterTenor 'a' f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   660 1120 2750 3000 3350
Amp (dB)         0    -6  -23  -24  -38
bw (Hz)          80   90  120  130  140

CounterTenor 'e' f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   440 1800 2700 3000 3300
Amp (dB)         0   -14  -18  -20  -20
bw (Hz)          70   80  100  120  120

CounterTenor 'i' f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   270 1850 2900 3350 3590
Amp (dB)         0   -24  -24  -36  -36
bw (Hz)          40   90  100  120  120

CounterTenor 'o' f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   430  820 2700 3000 3300
Amp (dB)         0   -10  -26  -22  -34
bw (Hz)          40   80  100  120  120

CounterTenor 'u' f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   370  630 2750 3000 3400
Amp (dB)         0   -10  -26  -22  -34
bw (Hz)          40   60  100  120  120

Tenor 'a'        f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   650 1080 2650 2900 3250
Amp (dB)         0    -6   -7   -8  -22
bw (Hz)          40   60  100  120  120

Tenor 'e'        f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   400 1700 2600 3200 3580
Amp (dB)         0   -14  -12  -14  -20
bw (Hz)          70   80  100  120  120

Tenor 'i'        f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   290 1870 2800 3250 3540
Amp (dB)         0   -15  -18  -20  -30
bw (Hz)          40   90  100  120  120

Tenor 'o'        f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   400  800 2600 2800 3000
Amp (dB)         0   -10  -12  -12  -26
bw (Hz)          40   80   100  120  120

Tenor 'u'        f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   350  600 2700 2900 3300
Amp (dB)         0   -20  -17  -14  -26
bw (Hz)          40   60   100  120  120

Bass 'a'         f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   600 1040 2250 2450 2750
Amp (dB)         0    -7   -9   -9  -20
bw (Hz)          60   70   110  120  130

Bass 'e'         f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   400 1620 2400 2800 3100
Amp (dB)         0   -12   -9  -12  -18
bw (Hz)          40   80   100  120  120

Bass 'i'         f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   250 1750 2600 3050 3340
Amp (dB)         0   -30  -16  -22  -28
bw (Hz)          60   90   100  120  120

Bass 'o'         f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   400  750 2400 2600 2900
Amp (dB)         0   -11  -21  -20  -40
bw (Hz)          40   80   100  120  120

Bass 'u'         f1   f2   f3   f4   f5
frequency (Hz)   350  600 2400 2675 2950
Amp (dB)         0   -20  -32  -28  -36
bw (Hz)          40   80   100  120  120

[martinvicanek]

Any chance you could link to a track or video so I can hear the thing in action?

Peter Frampton was hot in the seventies, google him and you shall find. I am surprised he hasn't been aired on Volcan back then?

[Spogg]

I got it now. At first I thought this is a mechanical version of a vocoder, a forerunner, but on reading further it most definitely is not.

I can't see how this can be done effectively by just using digital algorithms.
The sound is modified by the musculature of the mouth cavity and tongue. This is under fine control in 3 dimensions by the artist, with live real-time feedback for correction. You would need several parameters to control in tandem such as cavity size, shape, tongue position and lip opening and more, so the big challenge would be to make a suitable controller to influence their respective emulations.
I was not impressed by the plugins I heard, in comparison to the real thing.
This reminded me of attempts to model a saxophone without using samples; individual expressions can be realised but not the whole range of possibilities a real player could create. When a human is involved in the creation of a sound, and not just its selection (like on a piano) things get very messy.
Prove me wrong...?

Cheers

Spogg

[tulamide]

I can't see how this can be done effectively by just using digital algorithms.
The sound is modified by the musculature of the mouth cavity and tongue. This is under fine control in 3 dimensions by the artist, with live real-time feedback for correction. You would need several parameters to control in tandem such as cavity size, shape, tongue position and lip opening and more, so the big challenge would be to make a suitable controller to influence their respective emulations.

The question is: Is it worth the effort? You could just build one yourself (or put a small headphone in your mouth. Anyone tried that?).
However, I am convinced it can be done. What you need is the following:

Vowels. Youlean already added to that topic.
The mouth's volume (note: the 3D-size, not the loudness). This changes based on vowels and further movement of cheek and jaw. Basically it is a physical element and therefore physical synthesis would be of help here.
Interface: The gui would be locking a vowel on tap/click, a midi cc would then control the speed of morphing from the locked vowel to a second one, while you press the mouse button over it. Something like that.

I'm not saying I could do that. But I'm sure it can be done with convincing results. I just saw a face oscillator while researching for this topic, so why not? A user demoing FaceOSC

[martinvicanek]

Here is a little brush-up of the vowel filter that we were messing around with at the SM forum. Now all you need is a camera and map face movements to X-Y-coordinates - there you go!

[Spogg]

Peter Frampton was hot in the seventies, google him and you shall find. I am surprised he hasn't been aired on Volcan back then?

It's another 15 years before sub-space transmission will be invented on this planet.

I just saw a face oscillator while researching for this topic, so why not? A user demoing FaceOSC.

That's amazing and rather freaky! That is SO beyond my ability to do. It's brilliant but it ain't a talk box.

Here is a little brush-up of the vowel filter that we were messing around with at the SM forum. Now all you need is a camera and map face movements to X-Y-coordinates - there you go!

I love the freaky evil whispering sounds it makes right out of the box! Just add breath noise and you have a startling horror movie effect. Wonderful Martin (as ever), but it ain't a talk box!

Cheers

Spogg