Newbie question. Mixing Poly and Mono in schematics?

[R&R]

Yet another newbie here!
Hello everyone, or to anyone reading!

Scratching my head here...

Trying out demo version to see if I can actually realize a simple synth using for the most part toolbox components and modules.

I already had some blue monostream-fed components at the end of the schematic chain of the synth that has been working fine all along.
However... started encountering problems and crashes as soon as I threw in an option of switching to a free running osc (as LFO).

I'm having to use separate de-zippers for poly and mono. And to even get it to work I had to create a timer that momentarily changes value (bool) to the mono de-zippers
like a trigger, because every time if switch from and to the free running osc (as LFO) the de-zipper stop output:ing values...

Lastly... if I connect for example the toolbox reverb at the synths outputs, the free running osc either dies, goes bananas, or outputs sporadically... Wierd.

Does mixing polystreams and monostreams to any extent usually cause problems?

Thankful for any feedback anyone might have...

[martinvicanek]

Hi R&R, and welcome to the forum!
Straight mixing blue (Mono or Mono4) and white (Poly) signal types is not possible, as you already have found out. The Poly signal includes voice information and may carry multiple signals in parallel under the hood. You get from white to blue via the Combiner prim.

Free running oscillators are a bit tricky to achieve in FS.

Other than that, if you ask for help regarding a specific problem, it is a good idea to post a schematic rather than a screenshot.
Have fun getting flowstoned!

[Spogg]

A module I use quite often is attached. This takes a blue mono signal and converts it to poly white.
This means you could have a free-running oscillator in blue (because blue runs constantly) and make it available for poly processing.

One example use is having an LFO running in blue but modulating poly streams. That has the feature that every note played (poly channel opened) has the same modulation phase as all the others.
If the LFO runs in poly white the LFO is available per-channel so would start when each note is played for each channel, so all the notes played would very likely be “out of step” with each other because the starting point of the LFO is defined by when a new note is played.

[R&R]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I appreciate it!

Hmmm... one of my problems seems to be CPU overload. Go figure.
The reported CPU usage in Flowstone was around 1-2% idle, and 20-30% running the synth, with 5% extra per fired note. But in reality Flowstone seems to be using 80-100% of two cores. Necessary overhead for the current schematic I guess?
No wonder everything goes bananas. But can't rule out there isn't a problem with my horrible "spagetti-schematics" also

Other than that, if you ask for help regarding a specific problem, it is a good idea to post a schematic rather than a screenshot.
Have fun getting flowstoned!

No one should have to suffer my newbie spagetti test-schematics yet...

Yep! I'm definately feeling stoned trying to understand the Flowstone stuff I'm more of an idiot UI design person. Moving pixels back and forth.

Hey, about posting schematics...
Specifically you two, and a few others here have posted some awesome stuff on the forum that might become useful... Can I use that freely in a distributed synth??? If I EVER get one to work that is

Not likely, but my synth would be free anyway so... Maybe a donation-button at most, if someone get struck by lightning and feels generous won't happen. But I was born optimistic (brain damage?)

As soon as I get a reasonable proxy of my vision of a synth "stable and running" I have to get a license and bring it into a DAW.
Any suggestion on which DAW is the most flowstone plugin friendly? Reaper?

[Spogg]

5% extra per note is not normal in poly white. I won’t go into technicalities (because I’m not good at that) but the step increase should be for every four notes. So if you play a staggered chord the first 4 notes should give the same CPU and the 5th should then step up the CPU. So if your base or standby CPU with no notes sounding is 2% (due mainly to blue stuff) and it goes up to 6% when you play a note when you go to the 5th note it should go up by 4% to 10% because the poly stream is using 4% per 4 notes. This prediction is not super-accurate because I often find that additional 4-notes use a bit less than would be calculated.

As Martin said, if we can see a schematic it would help enormously. And believe me, I’ve seen some “remarkable” schematics. I bet the schematic for my first synth, the Quilcom Adder, is at least as untidy as yours. I would say the first thing to get right is the functionality and improve your schematic layouts later.

Regarding re-using modules etc we generally say that anything can be re-used that’s posted here and that’s certainly the case for me. The only thing we expect is that if a module is “signed” by the author the signature shouldn’t be changed or removed. We once had a guy who posted stuff by others and gave the impression it was his work, which isn’t playing ball really. I use loads of stuff made by Martin for example.

Regarding DAWs we all have our personal preferences. I use Reaper and love it to bits. But tulamide pointed out that Reaper is the most tolerant for testing our plugins and Cakewalk by Bandlab (free but 64 bit only) is a bit more “picky” so I always test in CW as well.

[Duckett]

Don't feel too bad about spaghetti-schematics, I'm not exactly new to FS, but am notorious for them.
Re: using stuff from others- when I'm doing GUI text, I will credit sections where appropriate- if it won't fit, a info/credits button will show who's done what.. why spoil the urge toward generosity in others, right?

[R&R]

That's useful reference info about cpu!

My synth is a bit tricky because it has like... eeeh... ummm... ughh... "prewired" setups of different oscillator configurations. So it's tough getting a stable performance measurement, since each of the now 14 setups (will be more) are completely different. One setup can have 1 oscillator, another 32, connected differently. Their layout and controls are also a bit cascade-like with different cpu-impact because of different amounts of prim's and oscillators controlled by them.

Basically, It's like a really-really-really-stupid "eurorack digital rom(patch)pler"
Single value it brings to the table is the sum of its parts. So sharing the synths whole schematic openly would destroy all the joy of making it completely at this moment

If I can't sort things out by myself then I might share the entire schematic (it's the only way) with you, MV or other FS-veteran privately because I don't wan't to post the synth-schematics here on the forum.

As mentioned I've been looking through the forum and did find some stuff... You and MV seems to be one of the geniuses around
Amongst some things... I found a voice mask made by you Spogg (correction: was Trog*s) and and a modified scope by MV... I actually managed to put them together with some duct-tape, the only way I know how... I think they'll fit in just perfectly Edit: Did no longer need the voice-mask code. It proved to work though, albeit making the synth a bit unstable.

[Spogg]

You may not be aware that if you have multiple oscillator arrangements etc, and you want to choose just one at any time, you should use the Selector prim. Any part of the stream NOT selected will NOT use CPU, only the full path going via the selector(s). This doesn’t happen if you use multiplexors for route switching.
The slight downside is changing the selector to another path will cause a recompilation of the schematic and if a note is currently sounding you’ll get a click. The only time to avoid a selector is if you think the user might want to automate the selection while playing, which is often not the case.

I understand you not wanting to share the schematic publicly, and I should add that resolving issues yourself might be hard, but the lessons will be better learnt and, as you imply, will give greater satisfaction and pride in what you’ve achieved.

[R&R]

You may not be aware that if you have multiple oscillator arrangements etc, and you want to choose just one at any time, you should use the Selector prim. Any part of the stream NOT selected will NOT use CPU, only the full path going via the selector(s). This doesn’t happen if you use multiplexors for route switching.

Got it!
I suspected there was a downside to multiplexors. Have to do some extra checking to see if I can use selectors instead... To be sure i'm actually interupting streams I don't wan't running.

...if a note is currently sounding you’ll get a click.

Noticed that...
Like many others seems to have... I've had to resort to multipliers as and DSP snippets as switches (at the cost of cpu). Alot of time is being spent turning alot of things to poly, so I can modulate at audiorate and also modulate "modulation-sources modulation amounts" (some many 2 many connections iow). Oh man... the create/extract bus-prim was a real relief to discover in this context...

I have no problem including you, MV or any other in the about-dialog of the plugin when it's finished... if anyone would like.
However I suspect you don't wan't to be associated with the amateurism of my plugin. Some of you probably design your own more professional stuff some even writing plugs in C++ and mostly prototyping in FS?

[R&R]

Don't feel too bad about spaghetti-schematics, I'm not exactly new to FS, but am notorious for them.
Re: using stuff from others- when I'm doing GUI text, I will credit sections where appropriate- if it won't fit, a info/credits button will show who's done what.. why spoil the urge toward generosity in others, right?

Yes, most definately appropriate when sharing schematics which includes others stuff...