Apparent false alarm with FS plugs and Reaper's bit bridge

[noisenerd]

I seem to have trouble with SynthMaker and FlowStone plugins when trying to use them in the 64-bit version of Reaper (OS is 64-bit Win 7 Pro). It's almost always just the "reaper_host32.exe" that crashes, if I just hit "Close the program" in the error window that pops up, I can still play the project. Reaper will stay open, but gets wonky, and doesn't exit normally (I get another error window if I exit).

I only rarely get this crash when I first load a plugin, it will usually load and seem to work fine for some time, but once it crashes, it often (but not always) keeps crashing every time I load the project. If I load the same plugin in another project, it seems fine.

The very first time I had this problem, it was one of the older Variety of Sound plugins. The most recent was in a project for Spogg's "FlowStone Music Challenge", where I was using nothing but SM/FS plugs. I had several crashes throughout that project, now I can't get it to load at all, and it seems to have lost the preset settings to most of the plugins after an attempt to load the project with all plugins offline. I first had trouble in this project with an Antress plugin, but some of own also freaked out.

I suspect Reaper's bit bridge for two reasons:

1) As mentioned above, it's usually only the "reaper_host32" process that crashes.

2) I often use some of the same plugins in Bidule, which lacks a bridge so I usually work with the 32-bit version. I haven't had much if any trouble there. Likewise with VstBoard, another 32-bit host.

In order to avoid going back over ground already covered, this is from another thread:

One thing to watch for ... AUDIO OUTPUTS. Usually in FS we have them connected to a DS or ASIO primitive. What I've 'learned' ... BEFORE exporting as VST ... disconnect though LINKS. I believe the connections cause confusion when running in a new host [your DAW].

Thanks for the suggestion, but I already do that. It isn't just the ones I export that I have trouble with though, either...

Just to be safe, I delete everything but the container for the thing I'm exporting.

Any other Reaper users have trouble (or not)?

[tulamide]

I use Reaper and only had issues many years ago, but that was the other way 'round: Trying to bridge 64-bit plugins in 32-bit Reaper.
If you google around, you will only find positives about bridging 32-bit VSTs. There are some that are programmed faulty, but if the VSTs are bug-free they run bridged in Reaper flawlessly.

You may want to test for your own plugs that "include sse" is activated when exporting. Also, right clicking on any VST in Reaper's plugin list gives you some options (especially "run as"). Use dedicated process for those that seem to crash, and don't select embed. There's also a "better buggy VST plugin compatability mode" in Reaper's preferences, that you should use especially on older VSTs.

[noisenerd]

If you google around, you will only find positives about bridging 32-bit VSTs. There are some that are programmed faulty, but if the VSTs are bug-free they run bridged in Reaper flawlessly.

Yeah, I don't have problems with all bridged plugins, and I still use a lot of 32-bit stuff. I'd be tempted to think it was just my stuff... but it isn't.

You may want to test for your own plugs that "include sse" is activated when exporting.

It is. Thanks for the tips though. I haven't tried the "buggy" setting, I'll give that a whirl.

Well, that's two other Reaper users who don't seem to share this trouble... maybe there's something else going on here.

[RJHollins]

Still following your thread here ...

Just to mention. I too am running Win-7 Pro 64-bit. I'm also using BIDULE as my chainer. Reaper 4.78 ... I've not yet upgraded to the v5.

Further ... I'm still using FlowStone 3.04

This is a new i7-5820K build [since Dec]. Not a single FS related crash. I use this everyday for my Mastering job.

Maybe you would want to post a 'troubled' example that some of us could test for you ... I don't know. No doubt crashes are frustrating. Any of us telling of a better experience can only offer help, but difficult to help solve without knowing what you're working with.

[Spogg]

All my Quilcom stuff that I've uploaded to the flowstoners website I've tested in windows 7 64 bit with Reaper x64 just prior to upload. I only use 32 bit myself so I wanted to be sure that 64 bit users would get good results when bridged. They have all worked perfectly, with one exception, but I must add I've not made any music with them so they haven't been excersised fully.

This is the one problem I had, which I detail in my Bluesky write-up: In Reaper x64 the microhone input to the vocoder is routed in parallel to the vocoder's output monitoring. This is not the case in Reaper 32 bit. I've taken screenshots to confirm and compare settings and even deleted my soundcard drivers and bought a new USB audio interface but still get the same result. Naturally I've tried deleting Reaper and all registry references and re-installing. I think this is a bridging issue so I also tried a very old Reaper version (3.71). It was still the same so if this is a bug it's been there for a very long time! Routing and using a vocoder is probably quite rare so maybe it's never been spotted.
I emailed Cockos support ages ago, with the project files and my plugin, but got no reply yet.

Cheers

Spogg

[noisenerd]

Thanks to all for the replies!

Like I said, it doesn't seem like it's any one plug that has issues, but if somebody would be willing to download and play with say, Divisor, maybe that will tell me if I'm doing something wrong with my stuff. That was my first export, and one that did crash in my last project. If someone else has trouble with that, maybe that will help me narrow things down.

The "final straw" in that last project seemed to be when I added a third instance of Antress Modern Equalizer, but again, I can load it into a new project and not have trouble.

Would there maybe be some reason that having more FS plugins loaded at once would cause trouble? Or maybe plugs made with different versions of FS/SM in the same project? I'm thinking probably not, but I don't know.

Thanks again folks!

[tulamide]

Would there maybe be some reason that having more FS plugins loaded at once would cause trouble? Or maybe plugs made with different versions of FS/SM in the same project? I'm thinking probably not, but I don't know.

No. Just read the list of the plugins I used for the Flowstone Music thread all at once.

Your issue is probably more related to hardware. Defective RAM, for example, would produce exactly what you experience: Random crashes that can't exactly be recreated.

I can't say how reliable the tool is, but under Windows 7 there's a built-in memory diagnosis. Here's a video explaining how to use it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNhmXU0-IhA

But for a real test you should use Memtest and let it run over night: http://www.wikihow.com/Test-PC-Ram-with-MemTest86

[Spogg]

I downloaded and tested Divisor in Reaper 32 bit and all ok.
I then booted into Windows 7 64 bit (same machine) and tested in Reaper x64 more thoroughly and it all worked fine and was rock solid. I recorded with 3 instances of Divisor, one track at a time and played back all three tracks. Like I said, all good and worked as expected.
I think tulamide has the answer (no surprises there ) that it's an issue on your PC or possibly dodgy 64 bit soundcard drivers.

Hope you'll let us all know the outcome when it's resolved.

Cheers

Spogg

[noisenerd]

Your issue is probably more related to hardware. Defective RAM, for example, would produce exactly what you experience: Random crashes that can't exactly be recreated.

I hope I don't seem argumentative here, as I do appreciate everyone's suggestions: but I would think if it were a hardware thing, it would show up more regularly. I've got other projects that run no problem for hours at a time with lots of bridged plugins. I've had occasional trouble with the VoS plugins before this, but it was the all-FS project that really made me think there might be some incompatibility... but recent events (more on this below) and the posts here make me doubt that now.

Just to be safe, I think I will run a mem test, can't hurt. I have Linux on this box too, with utilities I know & trust. This is a fairly new computer, and is generally quite stable, but things do happen.

I downloaded and tested Divisor in Reaper 32 bit and all ok...

Awesome, thanks for that! At least we seem to have ruled that out then.

This is some strange stuff. Yesterday I loaded all the same plugs I had in the project that blew up into a new project, and just entered a bunch of notes to have something play. I messed around a bit, saved, closed, re-opened, etc... and opened it again today and did more of the same. I've only had it open maybe 5 times, and haven't spent a lot of time on it, but no trouble yet. I'm starting to think the previous random crashes were just that, and maybe just by pure chance something got screwed up with the file that happened to be using nothing but FS stuff. By the time I saved another version, it was too late, and the problem spread to the new file? I don't see anything wrong with it if I open it in a text editor, but I really don't know what else could be going on.

Well, thanks again to all for the help, at least we seem to have ruled some things out. If I do come to any actual conclusion, I'll share it.

EDIT: changed thread title to reflect current findings.

[tulamide]

I hope I don't seem argumentative here, as I do appreciate everyone's suggestions: but I would think if it were a hardware thing, it would show up more regularly.

That's the mean thing about memory issues: Their symptom is irregularity.

Imagine one cell of billions not storing its value anymore. On bad days it might be addressed a dozen of times, on good days not at all. And also all things in between.

But I don't need to be right! I'm only interested in getting your issue solved. And so I proposed to have a look at (yes, it's just a proposal) memory, because of the symptoms. But, every doctor would agree, a symptom is often shared by more than one possible cause.

Regarding the test of the memory: Use whatever tools you trust on whatever system you like. It is just important that you run it long enough. There are memory issues that don't show up from a simple check, but under stress (for example too heavily heating up bars).

But again, I just want to see the issue solved. So, if it turns out to be a faulty Reaper version you're using, that's fine with me as well.