circuit simulation

[gvalletto]

Hi all,
I want to simulate analog and digital circuits for audio devices. Now I´m designing a small synthesizer based on the 555 IC.
I tried some software for it (Livewire, LiveSpice, etc) but those have different problems (bad audio simulation or lack of the 555 IC...).
I think That DSPRobotics may design a good software to do it well, including op amps, oscillators, logic gates, etc.
What do you think?
And what does DSPRobotics think?

[Spogg]

Hi gvalletto

It's possible to emulate lots of analogue circuits and digital logic.

For example look at
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4248&p=23892&hilit=logic+gates#p23892

I would say that, in my experience, the Flowstone environment is not ideal for simulating individual components like resistors, capacitors etc. but is good at producing the overall results you would get from analogue circuits, like filters, oscillators, amplifiers, ring modulators and so forth.

Flowstone isn't an electronic component-lab type system you see. It's probably better to find out what Flowstone can actually achieve, then make use of that knowledge. Have a look at some examples and work through the manual and see if you can make use of what you learn.

Cheers

Spogg

[BobF]

Hello gvalletto,

Like Spogg said, we DO NOT have individual resistors, capacitors, diodes, transistors, or the 555 timer, but almost and device in the analog or digital world can still be made without them. Do exactly as Spogg said, download some examples, look them over and you should start learning pretty fast.
What kind of circuits do you have in mind? There is also a lot of good help here and all you have to do is ask. Hope to see something from you down the road then.

Thank care, BobF.....

[billv]

Yenka is great for lots of things, like the Magical 555 timer, but not for serious audio .
Give it a try if your keen. Get the free version. Only restriction is you can't use it
during school hours,(9am-3pm).
The program has got a little bit of everything...its great stuff
http://www.yenka.com/

Ps: I think the 555 timer is overrated.
The 666, from Hell itself, is much better.

[martinvicanek]

Here is a simple exampe of an analog circuit simulation. All you do is write down the nodal equations which, if you use capacitors or coils, will be differential equations. Then choose your favorite ODE solver and off you go. In the above example I used a plain vanilla Euler forward scheme, but if you are seriuos you'd probably want something like Runge Kutta. As the others have said, FS is not a dedicated simulation tool, so you have to do it the pedestrian way. But it is definitely possible.

[gvalletto]

Hello gvalletto,

Like Spogg said, we DO NOT have individual resistors, capacitors, diodes, transistors, or the 555 timer, but almost and device in the analog or digital world can still be made without them. Do exactly as Spogg said, download some examples, look them over and you should start learning pretty fast.
What kind of circuits do you have in mind? There is also a lot of good help here and all you have to do is ask. Hope to see something from you down the road then.

Thank care, BobF.....

Hello everyone, sorry for the delay in my response, and thank you for your interest. I will try to be more clear:

I know the advantages and limitations of Flowstone. I made some simulations of digital and analog circuits using the DSP capabilities of Flowstone and some of its primitives. But that is not my idea now.

I am looking for a hardware simulation software (like TIna, Multisim, Livewire, Yenka, etc) that handles audio ASIO driver so well as it does Flowstone. I have not had good results with the programs I named.
I want to pre-make synth circuits in a simulator and later make hardware prototypes. Then it occurred to me that DSP Robotics has enough intelligence to make a new software to simulate circuits audio hardware more realistic than the other software I've tried.
I made this, now I want to improve it using a good simulator:
https://www.google.com.ar/url?sa=t&rct= ... 4068,d.Y2I

Always is need to make hardware corrections at the end, but I think that using a software simulator would save me time. But the programs I tried did not work well with audio frequencies greater than a few hertz. I want to hear, for example, a 555 oscilating at 5 KHz on my PC speaker.

Imagine a software that uses a philosophy similar to the Flowstone mono stream, with modules that mimic op-amps, typical oscillators such as 555, resistors, etc.
At the SynthMaker era, I suggested the idea of extending their capabilities in the areas of automation, and Flowstone born shortly after. I hope this new idea be seen by DSPRobotics, it would be a benefit for me and for many audio hardware design fans.
Regards,
Gustavo

[KG_is_back]

It is not possible to actually make circuits out of Flowstone components. FS uses streams of numbers which are strictly one-way - a module does not have idea from where data is coming and where is it sending it either. Even a simple circuit like two resistors in series requires feeding information about voltage backwards through schematic, which is not simple (feedbacks in code always have at least 1-sample natural delay).

I think it should be possible to code "circuit->DSPcode" converter. Basically you'd draw a schematic and it would generate a code, which you can copy-paste into a DSP code component. Based on what I've seen in Martins schematic, it should be possible to automate the process he done by hand. Sounds like a fun project to me...

[billv]

What about the genius of MAX MSP stuff.
Powerfull as hell and and awesome community to work with.

[Spogg]

I made this, now I want to improve it using a good simulator:
https://www.google.com.ar/url?sa=t&rct= ... 4068,d.Y2I


At the SynthMaker era, I suggested the idea of extending their capabilities in the areas of automation, and Flowstone born shortly after. I hope this new idea be seen by DSPRobotics, it would be a benefit for me and for many audio hardware design fans.
Regards,
Gustavo

Hey Gustavo your video took me back to the days of my youth when I used to make hardware organs and synths. I loved it. The principle of creating sound just from chips and components always seemed a bit magical to me.

I do like the idea of on-screen design of working electronics, which can provide an audio stream out, and it would make a great addition to Flowstone if we had an "Electronics Edit" box like we have Ruby, DSP and ASM boxes at present.
I would suggest you email DSP Robotics with your suggestion but I must say I'm not optimistic this will be taken up.

Cheers

Spogg

[gvalletto]

Thanks Spogg!
I see you've understood my idea overcoming the drawbacks of my bad English...
At the beginning of this topic I figured that DSPRobotics could add simulation modules, but the integration can be complicated for both developers and users. The KG suggestions may be good, but as a hardware maker I prefer stiil enjoying Flowstone as is and get a unique simulation software from scratch. I'll be happy if you communicate with DSPRobotics for this matter.

You have also built hardware synths? If you have a video, send me the link!
Here I put a link to the second version of my synth:
https://www.google.com.ar/url?sa=t&rct= ... 4068,d.Y2I

I give its circuit diagrams for free. If you want, send an email to solcitomusica@gmail.com including name, city, state, country. (I put those data into an Excel spreadsheet for remind and to make statistics for my personal use).
Best regards,
Gustavo