DAW Automation envelopes - Jagged output.

[lalalandsynth]

When touch recording a knob in my VST (writing an automation curve) it gets recorded with these glitches.
Any ideas or experience of this particular issue?

Here is a screenshot of moving the knobs , sweeping up and sweeping down , slowly.

Automation.jpg (28.72 KiB) Viewed 34893 times

Also , when trying to record a switch I just get this little spike.

Switch.jpg (10.32 KiB) Viewed 34893 times

And when I sweep down and hold it down it returns to center on the automation.

Auto jagged.jpg (32.28 KiB) Viewed 34884 times

Thanks

[lalalandsynth]

Also another matter with automation.

I am using a Volume Envelope VST. It applies volum changes to audio according to an envelope.
I want to report to the daw for Undo's . It seems that the only way I can do that is to enable automation for the envelope. There is a problem with that , as soon as I enable automation for the envelope (which i do not need) it shows up in the list of assignable parameters ..Can I make it report to the daw for an undo without showing up in the list or parameters?

Here is how it is set to report as automation in the VST array.

Auto.jpg (47.86 KiB) Viewed 34890 times

This is what I want it to do in the parameter list. Neat and tidy.

List 1.jpg (54.72 KiB) Viewed 34890 times

This is what I get , Wayyy too many and completely unneeded.

List 2.jpg (79.55 KiB) Viewed 34890 times

Do I have to make a choice between too many reported parameters and the undo of changes to the envelope ?
Or is there a solution ?

[lalalandsynth]

Still having problems with this , tried various things but mostly I am mucking about ..cant see why it does this?

-- Tested on 2 computers 3.08.1 and 3.09 - Simple stock modules as well as Spoggs Harvester.

Is there a way to have a look at the automation output from the knob within FS to try and track this down ?

This is a slow sweep with a knob - touch auto recording the knob movement.
It also does not hold values, if I move the knob to a certain position and hold it there while doing touch recording automation it seems to jump to zero until I move the knob again ?

It has got something to do with the rate of output info from the knob , if I move it very fast it seems to catch the right automation curve.

Jagged auto.jpg (56.38 KiB) Viewed 34823 times

Here is a comparison to Massive. Everything normal with this automation recording.

Massive.jpg (45.77 KiB) Viewed 34823 times

[lalalandsynth]

To test this I hooked up an lfo to a knob - so lfo moves the knob - only way I could think of to get set the ticker speed of a knob into a VST parameter module.

At a ticker speed of 100 the automation is smooth .
At a ticker speed of 25 it looks similar to regular automation recording by moving the knob manually.
So this is connected to the "speed" of the reported output from a knob into a daw.

Has anyone made automation recording of knob movement work ?
What am I missing here ?

[Spogg]

I never tried this myself.

Looking at your pics it looks like it's green trigger related but I'm not sure by any means.

If nobody else can offer something here I'll look into it.

In the meantime have you tried disabling Auto and/or Record on any controls you don't wish to use for that purpose?

Cheers

Spogg

[TheOm]

Recording knob automation works completely fine for me in FL Studio.
Tried the Harvester, Stock Ruby Bitmap knob (by hand and by LFO sampled with tick25 and tick100), no problems.

[lalalandsynth]

@Spogg - I am only testing one knob at the moment.

Tested in Reaper- Win 7 -win 8- 3x computer

Downloading FL demo for testing.

[Spogg]

I tested with a Ruby knob and a SM knob (no Ruby). No difference between the knobs and I got the exact same response as you.

However when I choose Latch mode in Reaper for automation it works just fine for both knobs. Smooth with no spring-back.

The knobs I used utilise the the interact boolean to enable and disable the Rec pin on the preset manager.
When I set this pin to permanent True the spring-back stopped happening when I release the knob (in Touch mode). My guess is that it's designed to return to the previous setting on the knob when not recording (no interaction).

However I still got some glitches on the recorded automation curve when I moved and first touched the knobs (with no dragging). I made a test VST with float readouts for seeing if the value changed on clicking the mouse on the knob and there was no change but it created a pulse on the curve. Then I noticed I got a glitch when I changed the direction of rotation of the knob. So I re-tested with the automation set to latch mode and I got no glitches.

Conclusion:
There seems to be an odd interaction between Reaper and FS VSTs when using Touch mode for automation recording. I can only guess that a trigger is created in FS when clicking on the knob, or changing direction, but it briefly outputs an invalid parameter value at that point.
My pragmatic approach would be to use Latch mode since it seems to work fine.

I'm not fully understanding your other issues at the moment...

Cheers

Spogg

[Spogg]

I just had another look over your issue with the parameter list.

Every single value in an array will have a slot listed as a preset parameter in the preset (open up a preset in notepad and see). This is how the preset can be loaded and set up correctly. This is also what the DAW will read when set for automation.

You could maybe have a separate Save/Load system just for the array and not have it in the preset system at all, but I don’t know if this would fit with your project…

Cheers

Spogg

[lalalandsynth]

Ok, I guess its a Reaper/Fs Issue. Havent had a chance to test other daws , but I will so let's see.
Maybe this could be looked on for the next version, I guess its not high priority though.

As for the array , I really want to get rid of it from the automation list , wastes space and is redundant.
But then I would need to sacrifice the undo .

So I am thinking , is it possible to have a local undo for the array ? Maybe just one undo, in case you make a mistake ?

And on that note ...is it possible to have a local copy paste - in this case for the advanced envelope , where it has 4 envelope "presets/settings" and I would like to be able to copy preset 1 to preset 4.