"The ultimate synthesizer"

[Spogg]

For me, the ultimate “synth” would be one which allowed me to exactly (re)create all my SIM synths and any future ones I might think up.
So that would be the ultimate modular synth and it already exists and it’s called FlowStone

[R&R]

Then, from my perspective, there is none. We all are individuals and so the ideal/ultimate synthesizer is different for everyone.

Precisely!
Determining something as ideal and/or ultimate depends on "how" and against "what" you are measuring Any reference measured against can be both of subjective and/or objective nature.

it would be a modular synth with a fantastic GUI and combining in the modules absolutely every little detail from the last 60 years of synths. From analog, virtual analog, digital, from ladder to state variable, from classic 16-bit sampling to slicer with auto-formant-shifting/preserving, from aliasing sine generator, over band limited waveform to multi-wavetable-morphing, from arp to polyphonic sequencer, from fixed purpose to multi-modulatable. And of course with every effect ever invented.

I know you have it hidden tulamide!
When is the release date?

At a certain stage in the development of my project, ...

It's always a good thing to have a plan and set some main "must" goals for a project, plot down some features "to have" connected to these goals and further define them a bit... and then measure ongoing result against those goals as the project progress. Helps time management and prioritizing. Easy to go off on tangents otherwise.

I suppose an amateur strategy when for example mixing music, is to choose a reference track to emulate from a favorite artist... with the goal of achieving that "specific sound/feel" for ones own mix.

Personally I suck at all these things when working on any personal stuff... even though I know what should be done for best outcome

[R&R]

So that would be the ultimate modular synth and it already exists and it’s called FlowStone

Funny, because I did perceive FS as a modular synth at first. But now that the Dunning-Kruger effect has subsided... not so much
But if I was to actually learn about these audio things or really, anything (hitting my head in frustration ) it would eventually feel like a modular synth again...

[trogluddite]

I've never been a fan of the Swiss Army Knife approach to synths (or any other kinds of tools). For me it's the GUI that's often the deciding factor, I want to craft a sound to fulfil a particular role with the minimum of fuss, and I am not a fan of doom-scrolling through presets. If it were up to me every trainee synthesist would first be locked in a room for a month with nothng but a Korg MS10 and a couple of patch cables - only after you have wrung every last drop of musical expression from that will I consider intiating you to the exalted heights of a second oscillator!!

Tinkering with bells and whistles can be fun, but creative use of limited resources often works best for me - if my CPU is having to work overtime, then it's usually a good sign that I'm trying to flog a dead horse and need to reconsider something more fundamental about the music (even if you're a raging Squarepusher fanboi like me, you can always learn a thing or two from old-masters like Vangelis)

For a bass sound, just gimme direct hands on control of a bunch of oscillators, a filter or two, and some audio-rate modulation or distortion for some growl and howl. In most cases, if that's not enough to get me dancing about, then the line isn't sitting in the pocket well enough or is outright just not funky enough (99.99% of listeners do not care about, and almost certainly cannot even hear, the result of the last three hours that you spent getting oscillator fifteen's waveform absolutely tickety boo!)

For leads. No need to go over the top with fancy gizmos and gadgets - but, whatever there is, I want to brutally enslave it to my modulation wheels, aftertouch, and anything else I can kick, stamp, wiggle or wave at. I want to be able to actually play this thing with as many expressive degrees of freedom as possible so that I can communicate emotions with it in real time.

For pads, just gimme a quick way to dial in the frequency spectrum that's in need of padding, some dials for "hand wavy" stuff like width and swooshiness, and I'm fine. I don't want my pad synth robbing me of all the fun of adding the sprinkles and fairy dust to an arrangement - I'll roll my own tempo-synced twinkly bits thanks.

Organs. Churchy, Tranny, or Hammond with near as dammit the original controls - ain't broke, don't need fixin'

Drums. It's all about the dynamics - velocity should be mappable to everything and all the other things!

FX. I have plenty already thanks. I spent ages crafting that patch; I am not ashamed of it; let it stand proud; it shall not be cloaked beneath layers of algorithmic fairy dust. Or, if it actually is a bit shit; time to strip it back to solid metal and rebuild; ain't no point puttin' lipstick on a pig.

Oh yes. Trog's back and he's in one of his funny moods!
(I really shouldn't listen to Squarepusher so soon before bed-time!)

[R&R]

Trog that breakdown should work well as a roadmap on building a synth based of workflow creating a track...
UX:ing methods like over the shoulder observation in real scenarios might be overlooked alot.

If it were up to me every trainee synthesist would first be locked in a room for a month with nothng but a Korg MS10 and a couple of patch cables - only after you have wrung every last drop of musical expression from that will I consider intiating you to the exalted heights of a second oscillator!!

Savage!

Fit the bill on that one. I might need medical treatment after a fatal knockout like that

I've never been a fan of the Swiss Army Knife approach to synths (or any other kinds of tools). For me it's the GUI that's often the deciding factor, ...

This unfortunately sums up the two core ideas of my own newbie synth...
Being just a first attempt at making a synth, and with FS, it's just a stripped down minimal amalgamation... or basically just the essence of the idea I had to start with. I don't know any audio stuff so... "result thereafter".

My idea wasn't, or the original idea/vision wasn't aiming to be an ideal or ultimate synth, but rather contrary... an "unideal synth" or a "peculiar but not strange synth"... if that makes sense to anyone (probably just makes sense to me ).
A learning project as well.

Making this synth, my original vision has evolved slightly. Unfortunately a new evolved synth will likely never be made. I lack the know how... and it would consume to much time for me (as non commercial project) even if I had the knowledge. It would be a damn fine synth though. "Subjectively" speaking

Hopefully az-terisk will reach his target vision more closely than I did

[az-terisk]

Hello everyone,

I'd like to thank you all for your initial feedback, which is as rich as it is varied !

I'm leaving this topic open to give others a chance to express themselves on the subject. Believe me, I'll be back to read you every day.

Have a great weekend.

A.

[deraudrl]

I would think the "ultimate" synth is one that would be capable of ear-indistinguishable emulation of any other arbitrary synth/patch/sound. The problem of course is that the GUI will be well-nigh opaque.

CSound comes to mind, as does Synthmaster, both of which (IMHO) are absolute horrors to work with. Some kind of AI front-end to CSound might help ("Give me the Joe Satriani sound from 'Flying In A Blue Dream' bar 87 through a stack of 4-cent detuned MiniMoog filters..."), but I'm not quite sure what the point would be.

I've not been keeping up with the latest state of FS4, especially with regards to any limitations on ASM instructions, but I suspect FS5 or FS6 would come closer. Not sure I care, I'll be long dead before that happens.

[billv]

The "Ultimate Synthesizer". is Mother Nature...look how she handles Photosynthesis..

[az-terisk]

I would think the "ultimate" synth is one that would be capable of ear-indistinguishable emulation of any other arbitrary synth/patch/sound. The problem of course is that the GUI will be well-nigh opaque.

CSound comes to mind, as does Synthmaster, both of which (IMHO) are absolute horrors to work with. Some kind of AI front-end to CSound might help ("Give me the Joe Satriani sound from 'Flying In A Blue Dream' bar 87 through a stack of 4-cent detuned MiniMoog filters..."), but I'm not quite sure what the point would be.

I've not been keeping up with the latest state of FS4, especially with regards to any limitations on ASM instructions, but I suspect FS5 or FS6 would come closer. Not sure I care, I'll be long dead before that happens.

Thanks !