"Supergreen" theory

[stw]

just to be deleted from the gentle moderator if too OT but anyway...

this thread should be closed soon as it has turned into pure sarcasm and became grotesque in a way that people with an obvious lack of knowledge begin to dictate the art of technical debates in a more or less serious forum which tends to let it look like a sandbox for childish discussions with absolutely NO valuable content for common users!
The only one who brought in (before Trog) a verifiable approach to the supposed subject was taunted with childish and repeatedly absolutely meaningless statements!
That people with tighter nerves get upset sooner or later concerning that reluctance of approving any educated advice is just a matter of time. And NO - Trog - not any absurd discussion about any topic concerning SM or FS is worth to be protected. Sometimes it's a good idea to insist on at least some basic rules on how issues should be discussed in a serious manner preventing to abandon topics just ridiculous.
What i see here on meanwhile 11!!! pages is someone who pretends to go into a discussion to get some confirmation of a theory. The few serious answers are neglected with the double amount of troll like answers and new questions or pseudo theories. Over and over again...What kind of bullshit!
Guess what... i still think the initial poster has no clue about what he's doing and what he assumed to "test" or observes. I have to come to that conclusion because he isn't able to bring a schematic on the scene which could reveal what's going on or at least shows any confirmation of what he pretends to have discovered. So what??
I like to help others if i can and i'm happy if i could find advice myself. So no offence to anyone who seriously tries to get help but this is a sort of discussion which doesn't help anyone! And this is not because of some minor off topic replies.

just my 2 cents

[Nubeat7]

this thread should be closed soon as it has turned into pure sarcasm and became grotesque in a way that people with an obvious lack of knowledge begin to dictate the art of technical debates in a more or less serious forum which tends to let it look like a sandbox for childish discussions with absolutely NO valuable content for common users!
The only one who brought in (before Trog) a verifiable approach to the supposed subject was taunted with childish and repeatedly absolutely meaningless statements!
That people with tighter nerves get upset sooner or later concerning that reluctance of approving any educated advice is just a matter of time. And NO - Trog - not any absurd discussion about any topic concerning SM or FS is worth to be protected. Sometimes it's a good idea to insist on at least some basic rules on how issues should be discussed in a serious manner preventing to abandon topics just ridiculous.
What i see here on meanwhile 11!!! pages is someone who pretends to go into a discussion to get some confirmation of a theory. The few serious answers are neglected with the double amount of troll like answers and new questions or pseudo theories. Over and over again...What kind of bullshit!
Guess what... i still think the initial poster has no clue about what he's doing and what he assumed to "test" or observes. I have to come to that conclusion because he isn't able to bring a schematic on the scene which could reveal what's going on or at least shows any confirmation of what he pretends to have discovered. So what??
I like to help others if i can and i'm happy if i could find advice myself. So no offence to anyone who seriously tries to get help but this is a sort of discussion which doesn't help anyone! And this is not because of some minor off topic replies.

just my 2 cents

sad, but true and i really would appreciate it to keep the atmosphere respectful and polite... it started to be a good and helpful community like it should be so take care about it!

[tester]

If there would be no this discussion, there would be no explanations provided by Trog, not to mention few words and examples given by MyCo too. In other words - there would be no learning on less technical levels of understanding. Where do you think people should learn, making their own mistakes, and why not here? How many FS conversation boards are given by FS producers and to who? As you noticed (or not) - this issue (whatever it is, wherever is hidden) is compressed in one single topic, guided by OP, not spread by him all over the foroum in hunderts separate threads. Not like it - not participate, but give others space for learning, making mistakes (not all mistakes are of similar kind), and - expressing in order to confront with other thoughts... some day. I respect biliv for his passion and determination. And I share some commonalities with him. Like biliv - I am not a raw programmer, and will not be (I do what I do, to get other things done). FS is a tool also for non-programmers like me (and I paid for it, like other non-programmers like me), and as a non-programmer - I became able to make many wonderful things (respected by others), and I made them (and they work). Some work I did with the help of others, some without, and some thanks to discussions like this one. Kicking biliv - you kick me in some way too. I have my metaphor of entangled triggers (yeah, MyCo loves it very much) and I will keep it that way.

If you expect more professional topics - well - where is your creativity then to start them separately? (Or why don't you focus on other existing topics, instead of coming back here)? You are not far from the others if you are still here. And if this topic should be closed - then why didn't you used the triangular "!" button for reporting problems?

There a lot of things that could be useful (...if I just knew what they are and what their name is on first place...). That's where brainstorming helps.

My 1 US dollar.
Sorry if it sounded too harsh. No bad intentions behind. Peace.

[RJHollins]

well ... I think one could understand the 'reaction' stated if they came in on page 1 and read through all this ...

There were many moments that I just decided to throw out my type response ... in disgust. Watching childlike EGOs expanding as this progressed ... it really became a distraction ... and I feel needlessly.

I hope that 'this' has gotten out of everyones system, and we can talk, discuss, disagree and challenge in a proper manner. This IS a public forum ... there ARE private communiques like PM available. And if 'my freedom to express' is being hindered rises out of this ... then my freedom to IGNORE will be immediate. Life is too short, and there is so much to learn, and things to accomplish.

Look forward to learning and interacting with those I respect. Thank-you !

[Jay]

Hi guys

My half pennies worth....Some of the behavior shown in this thread is just imbecilic, immature and not becoming of the sprit of learning we are used to here or at SM land. time for some here to grow up!

Billv set out a theory, a valid theory and i was rather enjoying reading about it, it made me think a little differently about some things in FS, the green triggers issue may not be not be as black and white as we thought it was and perhaps we were being treated to an "alternate ending" so to speak! But, the thread quickly dissolved into a sea of crap talk and detritus and this was a shame, a real shame! we have much to learn and discover with the new tools we have been provided with so could we not try doing it with an air of civility and patience that it deserves?

many many great theories and ideas set out by men of science have been shot down in a ball of fire and scorn over the years, only to be found proven at a later date. hence we live in a world that is years behind what it could be in technological terms!

"The history of science shows that theories are perishable.With every new truth that is revealed,we get a better understanding of Nature and our conceptions and views are modified." - Nikola Tesla.

Great theory Billv! and fantastic analysis and insights Trogg! perhaps the trolls should stay under the bridge where they belong! ha ha

Regards

[billv]

After reload schematic in flowstone or reload whole flowstone?

na mate...I'll break it down...

( test on Wave Seq/Draw Seq/Scale seq/4 Note seq)
make vst...do the tests..all good...
Shutdown host, load it back up, run tests...all fail

Exact same thing, 3 times in a row.
The weird thing is that its spot on the first time the plug in is used.
So something is very "right" with trog's counters in there.
But why does it break down....why is it in-consistant.
Re-loading it after Host shutdown.....it's same result as green counters.
It looks like I'm missing a crucial aspect of trogs counter.......all i can think off...

I initially was questioning the host.....
Like when you "rescan for new plug-ins", the host must "tag" the plug-in in some way,
so it registers it as an available plug in. So i thought there might be something going on there.
But i dismissed it pretty quickly, because I'm not "rescaning for new plug-ins" for testing.
I have a default "test timing" file in hosts that's ready to go, plug-in already loaded, all vsti's
tested are called "test"...so all I got to do once file is loaded is run the host and I'm away...
Could the host still percieve it as a new plug(since it has a new id everytime created"
But this whole idea is a bit "out there"... so I keep drifting back the counters behaviour...???

was deliberately designed into the system

Funny i was thinking along these lines the other day....
trog, you know malc pretty well.....do you think, it's possible, that he's done something
sneaky without telling? Like adding a little piece of "whatever" to help these threads communicate?.
Not primarily for our benefit, but for something maybe that he's working on for future editions
or any number of personal/professional reasons. But it's a small thing, won't effect FS as is,
just improve certain areas, so he's not obliged to tell us. maybe like a personal R&D thing....?????

that this should be easy to test

Awesome...another method. bummer it will have to wait a bit....thanks

green timing discussion is completely bullshit.

i think the discussion is valid. It's the "X11" that is bullshit.
You said Myco, as we BOTH KNOW....accuracy is only available in Midi/Ruby and Stream.
Yourself, Trog, Nix and others made this PAINFULLY clear more than 6 years ago, when i uploaded
my first seq experiment, with those dumbass windows timers. Will never forget get raped over that,
was one of my favourite SM moments...threads...huh?...what's a thread Trog??...ha ha ha
Honestly mate.....I'm not really looking at the sample accuracy issue much....because putting
that definition into "cage" is really proving to be more trouble than what it's worth.
I very happy how it is now, with the midi timing as good as i get it.
But it's still WRONG Myco, why the hell am I getting such a good timing result--with all that GREEN CRAP????
The X11 keeps telling me "Piss off Bill, all that you read in the manual, and these guys taught you is wrong"....
This is un-acceptable....so i'm chasing down the answer. That's it man.
I don't care if i look like a "dumb f**k" in the process. I'm results orientated. Whatever it takes.

literally did not perceived what you told/showed him? It's not that he ignored you or did not understood. He literally did not saw your point, watching directly at it. No grounded reference points, no response.

No tester, I understood exactly where Myco was coming from the whole time. I think the mix up
there was just the difference in the "defintion" of sample accuracy and what it means to different people.

I am not a raw programmer, and will not be (I do what I do, to get other things done)

It used to be.....
"Build VST Instruments and FX without writing code, use 'em in your songs...share 'em with your friends"

[billv]

@Trog.....
Found an issue with ruby counter I can't explain ......
FSM= Test unit with ruby counters
In the counters module, note the 2nd counter from the top is set to 16/Wrap.
The green output from this counter never shows number 16...all good

ScreenShot238.png (44.38 KiB) Viewed 16401 times

Now in the 4 Note Seq, this counter to should be set to 4/Wrap, so i get a 0,1,2,3 output.

ScreenShot239.png (18.61 KiB) Viewed 16401 times

When I first ran it, noticed an error, missing a note, had to fix it by using a setting of 3/wrap.
This adjustment should not have been required.
Why am I getting the number 3 at the green output when it's set to wrap at 3??
2 Different behaviours from same counter......
Can you take a look if time allows...

[billv]

just finished a new type of test.
I thought it was time to try a synth with a bit more weight than just a vsti.
Got an old synth made in SM .. Ether(30.3)...added the seq module...came in at 300 000 parts.

First test with Ruby counter test unit was spot on. It was also consistant.
Three host shutdowns to re-try...no errors.

Next test with green counters test unit....failed.

This type test of is is easily re-created...so didn't bother to upload....(if needed..will supply fsm)

Another strong argument to switch to ruby counters...?

[Tzarls]

EDIT: Never mind, I was wrong about the accuracy of the tools used for measuring delta times.

Nothing to see here....

[MyCo]

You can't meassure green with streams, because streams are processed in blocks. The delta time output will always be multiples of the Buffersize or if the buffer size is very small (eg. on super low latency ASIO devices) just completely random.