WinXP - Win 8 --- something I need to know ?!?

[RJHollins]

interesting news back from beta-tester ...

I made an exact copy of the VST ... but exported as an EXE file.

The entire Saving AND loading process is WORKING. It can both create the folder and the configuration file ...and then successfully load it back in for distribution around the plugin.

The only difference ... this is an EXE. The VST is not working ... the file is not loaded

Same program ... different app structure.

I don't know what this means overall, but wanted to report back what has been tested.

So many questions now come up ... like, what happens with the PreSet Manager [in VST] ... can it load/save a file ... because this simple config file won't. Trying to load in a registration serial number ... is this going to have an issue ???

Knowing that I'm now not the only one facing this issue ... I'm a bit stunned that I've not read of this major issue so blatantly. [Unless everyone else already knows how to deal with this].

My 'tester' is a bit of a Geek , and is active in beta testing ... he says that forcing a user to allow special privileges is a real negative out there ... they call it 'lazy' programming. Well ... maybe this is so ... but I'm not aware how to solve this properly.

I'm seeking 1 reliable location to store and read a text file, without forces the user to do anything special ... like other apps he installs.

The mention of the C:\Users folder is one that I also have on my XP system. There is another folder inside called 'Public'. Is this the place available to use ??? Is it called the same name regardless of language or OS ???

If so ... do I 'hard code' to this location, or can the SYSFolder prim have an environmental viable set to locate this ??

I know ... bunch of questions ... but in order for me to test any of this, I have to indulge someone else's time. [and this has exceeded all time expectations] ... but a solid solution is needed, otherwise there is no apps to develop.

Calling all the 'Experienced Ones' ... desperately need help here ... I would think everyone would be affected by this at some point.

Sincerely ... Thank-you for what's been posted, and continued advice and guidance.

[RJHollins]

I use the SysFolders AppData (in Win8: C:\Users\name\AppData\Roaming) with added "\Appnamefolder"...

Works fine!

Hi Walter ... I hope you spot this message ... I'm having a difficult situation saving/loading a text file ... and with your mentioned success on a Win8 system [which is the one causing me grief, as I'm on XP] ... I was hoping you could expand on just how you are deriving this working location???

As you using the SYSFolder primitive ? any special Envir-variable ??

Please ... any info you could share would be most appreciated.

I made 2 versions of my app for testing, and EXE and VST ... the EXE works on all systems perfectly, the VST [which is the real app], will not load the text file. This is complicated in that I have to send the VST out for testing ... even though everything works as designed on my XP system ... this is driving everyone crazy.

Hope you see this ... and Thanks for any info you can expand on for this newB.

[billv]

Hi RJ,
This is a long shot....
but i had some similar issues a while back, where the vst version
wasn't doing what the exe did....
It turned out to be the left hand side string input on the Start Folder prim.
I got the result I wanted by leaving it empty..like this..
I know it looks wrong...but it works...

ScreenShot301.png (9.97 KiB) Viewed 15923 times

What does your set up look like.....?
Anything on the left hand side of Start folder prim...???

[RJHollins]

Hey billv

I had the left side empty.

The problem is the vst won't load the file back in
The exe does.
No problem whatever on my cp system
It's the other os's giving grief

I appreciate any ideas u have. Thank-you

[billv]

The problem is the vst won't load the file back in
The exe does.

Yeh I know the problem : ....that was just the fix that worked for me..

It's the other os's giving grief

That's a good point...havn't tested other than XP... (but all user feedback ok)

maybe put your 'datasaving' module in a 'vsti' module and hook it up to the adsr.
Upload it for further testing...

[RJHollins]

maybe put your 'datasaving' module in a 'vsti' module and hook it up to the adsr.
Upload it for further testing...

Billv ... once again you speak from a higher universe than I What da heck do you mean ??? I'm right now trying to figure out some kind of test app that I could write to see how to fix this.

I'm just cannot see how this loading of a text file is being prevent on OS's like win7 & 8 ... yet flawless on XP.

I can save the config file [including the folder] ... just can't get it to load !

Now I wonder about the PreSet Manager ... can it save and load ??? Sure, on my system it's working. I'm trying to troubleshoot something that works [on my system]. THEN ... to have the same code work exactly like it should .. but it is the EXE standalone version ... the needed VST version ... stoned.

Hey ... I'm more than willing to have acknowledged that it is my bad coding ... somewhere ... but then I think I'd see something of error show up in a month of testing. The Marshal routine is brilliant and so 'simple' ... totally different than my original plain-text routine ... still the same exact problem ... works here VST/EXE ... VST will not load the file on 7 or 8.

I honestly don't know how to proceed at this point. May an Angel take pity.

NOTE ... If what we have here is NOT related to any possible issue with my coding ... then this topic/issue should be at a fever level. This would eventually affect all of us. and if that preset manager works without issue ... then somebody please educate me.

going to ask my tester to please check the PM.

[RJHollins]

Just read this on SketchUp forum:

Normally the "visible" user's home directory is reserved for files that the user intentionally created, and programs should not create there any content without that the user agrees.

As has been mentioned, the temporary folder is not ideal. Although on Windows temporary files can survive for many years, we should not generally assume that they survive a reboot. I'm not sure if the parent folder of the temporary folder is a good idea (John, on OS X and other unices the parent of /tmp would be root / ?)

The ideal place would be to use the standard folder that is supposed to be used for application data. This can be depending on the operating system in ~/.local/share etc. or on Windows %AppData% which is under XP X:\Documents and Settings\[username]\Application (localized!) and under Vista,7,8 X:\Users\[username]\Data AppData\Roaming. There seems to be a ruby environment variable ENV['APPDATA'] but it's not cross-platform and it's known not to be reliable on different Windows versions (this needs to be tested). The prefered way is over the C# API: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2588 ... -directory

Dan suggested that the SketchUp API should provide a method to get that folder path.Aerilius
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Name: Aerilius

Also this link:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2588636/windows-application-data-directory

A member posted some RUBY code:

Code: Select all

char appdir[MAX_PATH];     
    size_t requiredSize;
    errno_t err= getenv_s( &requiredSize, appdir, MAX_PATH, "appdata" );

But I get an error message.

Another point was made:

The way the do this on Windows is to use the ApplicationData environment variable. If you were using C# you can get the folder it maps to using System.Environment.GetFolderPath(Environment.SpecialFolder.ApplicationData), googling for the Ruby equivalent it's ENV['APPDATA']. In English-language Windows it maps to:

C:\Users\%username%\AppData\Roaming\ (on Vista and Windows 7)

C:\Documents and Settings\%username%\Application Data\ (On XP)

It may map to a different folder in other languages, but as long as you get the directory from the enviroment variable and not hard-code it then it doesn't really make a difference. If you create a folder in there for your app and store the data there, Vista and 7 will allow read and write access to it without giving UAC prompts.

I need experts to help sort this all out and apply this. I'm an XP and blindly having to be compatiable to win7/8.

Still researching.

and more to digest:

If you use ENV to get the user's TEMP/TMP folder... on PC its 'Temp' path is:
C:/Users/Username/Appdata/Local/Temp
On a PC there will be lots of app-specific folders made in
C:/users/username/appdata/local
So adding another one for your own tools 'XXX' should not be an issue.
C:/users/username/appdata/local/XXX

mmm ... more RUBY code

Code: Select all

unless LOCALAPPDATA = ENV["LOCALAPPDATA"]
  # evals false because it's nil, we must be on XP, so:
  LOCALAPPDATA = File.join( ENV["USERPROFILE"], "/Local Settings/Application Data" )
end
# Otherwise on Windows ver 6+, and %LOCALAPPDATA% is defined, as:
# "C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local"


In fact, this SketchUp thread may show relevance:
http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=52730

[trogluddite]

Have an idea...
Presumably, Malc must know how to do this kind of thing - FS is saving modules files and stuff all the time - I'll ask him if he has any ideas. Maybe an update to the "Folders" prim' or something he can do with Ruby to give us a reliable Array of folder locations. Or even just a "expert dev" tip he knows.

[RJHollins]

I always like when YOU have ideas TROG !

I've been reading the SU forum, and found this from GM TIG:

On a modern PC the user's Temp folder's 'container' is going to be C:/Users/User/AppData/Local/: or something slightly different on XP...
On a MAC it's a seemingly meaningless folder name that contains the user's temp folder [named 'T']: something like /var/folders/rp/b9k42l5x7xngx_8tckgs0zdr0000gn/
Both of these 'containers' are consistently made and are intended to be always be fully read/writable by the user and the user's applications - that is why they are there.
The Unix-like /tmp folder should never be needed, and it's not returned by ENV [my earlier illustrations of a hierarchy of temp folders had it in as a 'fall back' should all else failed]...

Other apps use the 'Local' folder to store their data in their own subfolders.
The differences between Local and Roaming were also spelled out in one of my earlier posts in this thread.

Sorry to flood this thread ... but I'm trying to gather this loose information in hopes a solution will surface.

Will wait on info that TROG uncovers, and if Mr Malc has any comments for us, will most certainly listen ... and hopefully learn from.

Without a workable answer that does NOT involve the end user having to do something 'special' or out of the ordinary ... my current project and future designs are stoned, as I cannot get required data into the VST plugin ... therefore useless. [except to me ... cause here it works ... everyone else thinks I'm fooling about this actually exists and runs ... I may have to cut a screenshot video to prove it in action.


OK ... continued gathering of data ... as I'm wearing down my beta-testers generousity.


Still more info:

The "correct" place for persistent data for an application that is not part of the installation is the appdata location. These directories are separate for each user and guaranteed to be readable/writable for the associated user. This is normally were things like plugins/extensions would exist, also.

A good example of this (if you have it installed) is Sublime Text. (On windows) it is installed to %PROGRAMFILES%/Sublime Text, which contains all required binaries and application defaults. Then in %LOCALAPPDATA%/Sublime Text/ (or %APPDATA%/Sublime Text 2/ for st2 user level information is available, including plugins, settings, key configurations, ...

I stinkin' that this may be ENV variable # 28 to pref SYSFolder with ??!?

[Drnkhobo]

Guys I have just done some tests (remember I use the Appdata/Roaming folder) on win8 and I have no issues whatsoever! File writes & reads no problems.

Leads me to believe that it IS down to permissions as my vst didnt write/load any files in Audition, but when I gave it admin rights, it did it no probs.